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Discussion Starter #1
Mir beat Nogueira fair and square all this zombie Nog shit is getting crazy. Frank Mir was the first man to EVER to stop Nog. First man in the history of MMA.

So

Big Nog comes back and fights an awesome 3 round war against Couture. He is on the way of the comeback and it looks as if maybe he was just really, really ill at UFC 92. Then after the fight Nog say's "that's not me!" fair enough.

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira then eccepts a fight with top contender Cain Velasquez he goes out there and get's knocked out even worse then Mir put on him and then all of the sudden Cain is this unstoppable force who doesn't even have to fight JDS to get the belt.


So if we break it down.

Frank Mir

- First man to ever finish Nogueira
- Also beat Kongo (in MUCH more devestating fashion not a decision)
- Would wreck Rothwell

Cain Velasquez

- Beats Kongo in a 3 round decision
- Beats Rothwell
- Knocks out or TKOs? Nogueria in devestating fashion


So what is it? Is Cain Velasquez unstoppable because he beat Nogueira? Or is he just unstoppabele until he losses, then Nogueira is done?

Is Nogueira still a top fighter who just happened to lose to two top guys? Apparently Frank Mir is not and never was to you guys so this option is pretty shitty.

Is Nogueira just done and both these fighters are overrated?

Did Frank Mir put on ass whoopin on Nog and now he is declining?

Why is it that Cain Velasques is unstoppable for beating Nog and the next to fight Lesnar/Carwin? Why does he not have to fight a guy like JDS? Mir got his shot after beating Nog but that was when Nogueira was Interim Champ and had never been stopped. By your guy's logic after Mir beat Nog he was "done" so why is Cain unstoppable?


If Nogueira wants his rematch im sure Frank Mir would welcome it.

The thing is I like Big Nog but people are so fucked up on the internet is makes me mad. Personally I think Nog and Mir are still both great fighters ho lost too top guys. Shane Carwin being a tougher top guy then Velasquez though.
 

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Sleepy
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in b4 Alizio.

I think it had to do with Nogs awful boxing against Cain, he got destroyed flat out, can't block with your chin all your life, especially against someone like Cain.

Cain looks like he takes HUGE leaps and bounds every time you see him fight, that's why he gets hyped and for the record Mir is still amazing, Carwin just hits like a freight train.
 

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Return Of The North Star
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mir has epic BJJ and so does Nogueria, but Cain does not.

Cain KO'd him 1st round which is rare for Nogueria since he has great determination to not give up even against Fedor

+ Nog is getting a bit old

i dont discredit Mir nor do i discredit Cain but they have their differences
 

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Nog isnt Tito. I have never heard an excuse from him before.

Its hard to think he is just lying about the staph. He came in to the fight heavier then ever and visablely looking drained.

Frank Mir is still a top fighter and with the right tweaks could beat some guys.

He is also mentally weak. If Kongo had hit him like he hit Cain, Frank would have crumbled, no world class BJJ when he is hurt, no natural instincts other then curl up and go limp.

Cain is undefeated, hasnt lost a round, hasnt been taken down, has the 2nd highest striking % in the UFC and the 2nd highest takedown %..

your right, whats all the hype about??
 

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of Nazareth
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Cain recovered from being rocked bad TWICE to crush Kongo. Mir crumbles when rocked and never comes back. Based on what we've seen so far of course.

Besides, all these details are by the by. Anybody with a brain and eyes can see why Cain is special. If you cant, you will.

EDIT. I was really hoping I could get my comment in before Alizo... lol
 

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I think Mir's win was discredited, primarily due to the whole Nog was recovering from Staph argument. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just saying. I'm just not sure where the frustration is coming from. Prior to Mir's latest loss, he was ranked rather high in the HW division to most people, including a general consensus that he was ranked above Carwin. Most people had Mir picked to win.

Even with Mir's recent loss (beat down), he's probably still ranked with the big five pack (Lesnar, Carwin, JDS, Cain, Mir), only further down the list for most people.

Also, Cain finished a "healthy" Nog in the first 30 seconds or something, his win over a healthy Nog was quicker & mor brutal then Mir's win over an "unhealthy" Nog. Again, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the whole health speculation, but those are the facts the general populace are working with.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
He is also mentally weak. If Kongo had hit him like he hit Cain, Frank would have crumbled, no world class BJJ when he is hurt, no natural instincts other then curl up and go limp.
I would like to see Cain take some shots from someone like Carwin or Lesnar before we praise his "natural instincts" the reality is Mir finished Kongo in spectacular fashion in the first. Cain took 3 rounds to win a decision and took some shots. Maybe by your logic Cain's win was more impressive but not by mine man.

Cain is undefeated, hasnt lost a round, hasnt been taken down, has the 2nd highest striking % in the UFC and the 2nd highest takedown %..

your right, whats all the hype about??
Before he fought Nog his top wins were Rothwell and Kongo. Theres no doubt that he is a rising start but I just don't understand how he can be unstoppable after 3 legit wins, but when Frank losses to Lesnar or Carwin he is a guy with no heart who just turtles and goes limp like you descibed.
 

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I would like to see Cain take some shots from someone like Carwin or Lesnar before we praise his "natural instincts" the reality is Mir finished Kongo in spectacular fashion in the first. Cain took 3 rounds to win a decision and took some shots. Maybe by your logic Cain's win was more impressive but not by mine man.



Before he fought Nog his top wins were Rothwell and Kongo. Theres no doubt that he is a rising start but I just don't understand how he can be unstoppable after 3 legit wins, but when Frank losses to Lesnar or Carwin he is a guy with no heart who just turtles and goes limp like you descibed.
i dont think Cains win was more impressive. But its not about being more impressive. its about winning.

Cain is just gaining full confidence in ihs standup skills, he is a natural wrestler. He got the Kongo fight on short notice, with Kongo riding the win streak and a potential title shot looming.


ppl just look back hindsight and forget the actual situation. Cain did what most wrestlers do in that situation on short notice.... he wrestled.

he got caught cuz he was looking for pure takedowns and avoiding engaging.

do i think Cain could take out Kongo standing?? YES. but that wasnt the game plan and he made mistakes.

as far as Mir. Its not just Lesnar and Carwin.

What about the well known Mario Cruz, Ian Freeman and of course Brandon Vera??

even his win over Brock was mostly him getting thumped.

So really his biggest win where he dominanted Nog is the win in question.

i think he could beat a healthy Nog but Nog is the one raising the issue and he has earned the respect that i would have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

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Because the majority of people on this board dislike Mir and love Nog. The Mir hate makes no sense at all as the dude gives great interviews (he's gotta be top 5 most articulate guys in the UFC) and he's the only heavyweight in the universe (save Fedor) who was relevant years ago and remains relevant today, but whatever. It's hip around here to say Mir's wins are all crap.
 

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All Around Nice Guy
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I dont think Nog had Staph infection for his fight with Cain. Trust me... if he comes out with an illness the internet groupies will buy into it and discredit Cains victory too. Its just human nature to make excuses for the ones you love. :sarcastic12:
 

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Because the majority of people on this board dislike Mir and love Nog. The Mir hate makes no sense at all as the dude gives great interviews (he's gotta be top 5 most articulate guys in the UFC) and he's the only heavyweight in the universe (save Fedor) who was relevant years ago and remains relevant today, but whatever. It's hip around here to say Mir's wins are all crap.
Those are good points about his accomplishments and his ability to remain currently relevant, even though he is technically a fighter from the "past."

The main reason people don't like Mir is his mouth. That's the bottom line. If you like Frank, then his arrogant ramblings come off as "good interviews." If you think he's a douche because of his arrogance, then he's unbelievably annoying. His aura of disdain is self created. More power to his fans, but I didn't think it was a mystery as to why most people don't like him.
 

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KO artist
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Mir got his ass handed to him twice in the last year and half a dozen times in his career. Cain is undefeated and unshakeable so far against some quality competition. End of story.
 

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Those are good points about his accomplishments and his ability to remain currently relevant, even though he is technically a fighter from the "past."

The main reason people don't like Mir is his mouth. That's the bottom line. If you like Frank, then his arrogant ramblings come off as "good interviews." If you think he's a douche because of his arrogance, then he's unbelievably annoying. His aura of disdain is self created. More power to his fans, but I didn't think it was a mystery as to why most people don't like him.
Well it's not a mystery per se but it still doesn't make sense to me. He's not arrogant in an "I'm better than everyone and if I lose it was because of some bullshit" way (ie Tito); in fact he owns up to his losses really well. Expect a statement soon about how he fucked up and made mistakes in the Carwin fight and that's why he lost. He had the best excuse in the universe after he got tossed off of his motorcycle but he didn't use it (there's a quote somewhere where he flat out says that he can't use that as an excuse for his Vera loss). On top of that he was a dungeons and dragons nerd (lol) and he gives credit to other fighters for their skills and quickly admits his own shortcomings. Yeah he's cocky and thinks he can win fights and says so but shit that's what I like to hear out of a fighter.
 

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Mir got his ass handed to him twice in the last year and half a dozen times in his career. Cain is undefeated and unshakeable so far against some quality competition. End of story.
That doesn't really have much to do with the thread topic.

Mir beat Kongo a hell of a lot better than Cain did. End of story :sarcastic12:
 

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because mir beat nog when he was sick and they think of it as the reason he won the fight. cain destroyed nog with pretty much the first good strike he landed and it was when a lot of people were saying nog was gonna win and get back in the running for a title shot.

and im not sure where you saw people not discredit the win for cain as well, because i saw it here for sure. even some over the hill and done threads poped up for nog. you sound like a mir fan trying to justify old wins when the focus is always on what have you done lately.

oh yea mir got a title shot after beating nog and got another one after beating kongo so lol.
 

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KO artist
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That doesn't really have much to do with the thread topic.

Mir beat Kongo a hell of a lot better than Cain did. End of story :sarcastic12:
Um ok how about Mir fought a Nog that was at 25% with a massive staph infection that is medically recorded, while Cain fought and smashed that same Nog at 100%. Not to mention Mir looked shitty as hell doing it, with a slow lumbering repetitive combination that couldn't hit a hippo if it wasn't half dead on staph, while Cain looked extremely fast and powerful. Is that more relevant to the exact wording in the title of the thread?

And if you're done nitpicking, you'll realize that sometimes it's ok to bring up topics that are related to the main topic and expand the discussion. We were also discussing on general terms why Cain is still considered more impressive than Mir, but apparently Mr. Thread Nazi has a problem.
 

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I don't realy think he is getting discredited, maybe some "haters" do that. The fact is, there were some rumours reguarding Nog's health condition at that time, with the staph and him beeig the heaviest he's ever been for a fight...All in all, a lot of people think he wasn't 100% for that fight.
Maybe this is thee reason why some discredit Mir?!!:confused02: But,in the history books, Mir will remain the first to ever stop Nogueira.
 

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Um ok how about Mir fought a Nog that was at 25% with a massive staph infection that is medically recorded, while Cain fought and smashed that same Nog at 100%. Not to mention Mir looked shitty as hell doing it, with a slow lumbering jab that couldn't hit a hippo if it wasn't half dead on staph, while Cain looked extremely fast and powerful.
Yeah Mir looked pretty bad against Nog, almost lost the fight in reality. If you re-watch it you can clearly see that it was called early and Nog was just about to KO him. If Nog didn't have syphilis or whatever then this fight would have gone a lot different. War anti-Mir!
 

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Because the majority of people on this board dislike Mir and love Nog. The Mir hate makes no sense at all as the dude gives great interviews (he's gotta be top 5 most articulate guys in the UFC) and he's the only heavyweight in the universe (save Fedor) who was relevant years ago and remains relevant today, but whatever. It's hip around here to say Mir's wins are all crap.
Winner!!!

This is so true, and it just not here Frank Mir is hated at just about every MMA forum out there.
 
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