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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone ever given any thought as to the science behind many of the moves we see in martial arts and why they work? While some moves are obvious, such as punching or kicking causing physical damage, swelling the areas or breaking them or what not? have you ever wondered why some moves work better on some people then they do others, like various submissions? say a choke or arm bar?

Now this might seem a bit off of a discussion, but when you understand the science behind how a body works it just allows you to be more efficient. I'll add more soon myself just curious to see what others know instead of just putting this all up as a here is the info type of thing feel free to read this way oth3ers can respond and add more readily.
 

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True Grappler
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The elbow controls the shoulder and the wrist, so by articulating the elbow you gain control of the arm, the hand and the torso. Articulating the elbow in a spiral to the back and then towards the ground causes the torso to articulate and the body to turn away from you. This is the source of the Aikido techniques Ikkyo, Nikkyo, Sankyo and Yonkyo.

If you articulate the elbow forward then you can cause the elbow to lock, this can be used either as a throw or as an armbar. The armbar is a standard elbow lock a la BJJ and the throw is an Aikido throw called Shiho Nage.

That's my 2c for now.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I knew you'd be the first to repond, great one too surprise you did not move further down the arm and explin how to controlthe wrist to trow someone in a desired direction
 

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True Grappler
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The Don said:
I knew you'd be the first to repond, great one too surprise you did not move further down the arm and explin how to controlthe wrist to trow someone in a desired direction
If you hold the wrist adjacent to the tricept and pull down while rolling the forearm it causes the opponent to lose their balance and fall backwards. There really isn't much control of the wrist required.

Instead of barring the arm, rotating it redirects the shoulder and causes the opponent to fall to the ground. The way that you spiral the arm doesn't matter, just maintain control of it.
 

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True Grappler
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Yeah, it's all one principle. The difference is where you grip and how you apply leverage.

Also, all of the same principles apply to the feet and legs.
 

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Outta My Head
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It would be easier to know exactly what holds/moves you'd like an explaination on than to post blindly. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
well not looking for specific moves just any moves anyone want to talk about, this way it creates more discussion and allows others to be involved in the flow of the discussion
 

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Outta My Head
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Better yet, through out a hold... Then I'll break it down for you. :D
 

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Outta My Head
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But there are SOOO many types of chokes.

Okay chokes in general come in two types: Strangle holds and Trachea Chokes.

Strangle Holds are the holds that when used apply pressure to the carotid arteries that run on both sides of the neck directly into the brain. By creating pressure on the carotid arteries, you compress them restricting the flow of blood toward the brain. Without sufficient bloodflow (and the oxygen riding in that blood) the brain will shut off within anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds. During times of stress, where the brain is running at over 500mph, the need for oxygen to the blood is even hgher. In which case, a proper strangle hold will put a person out in as little as 3 seconds. Example of Strangle Holds include: The Triangle Choke, The Head-and-arm Choke, The Anaconda Choke, Rear Naked Choke, Kata Hajime, your host of Judo Lapel Chokes and others.

Trachea Chokes work by putting pressure right across your opponents windpipe/trachea. This is more submission that works because of the imminent amount of pain that is created, and the pressure against ones windpipe that makes it hard to breathe. Trachea Chokes are real nasty when applied. I do find that they are usually easier to get out. Examples of Trachea Chokes are: The Axe Choke, The Guillotine, Cross Arm Choke, Side Forearm Choke, your myriad of Judo gi/sleeve chokes and sloppily applied Rear Naked Chokes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Excellent respone like expected but there is a little known thing about chokes specificaly the strangle varitey, THe reason the body shuts down in about 10 seconds is not actually lack of oxygen at that point as the blood stream hold alot more then that. it is that the brain senses the drop in oxygen and in order to "restart" shuts down in hopes of getting the system rebooted. you can with training last alot long until you actually pass out from lack of O2. my personal best was bordering on 4 minutes. mind long before that things go fuzzy. and I do not recomend trying it with out experienced supervision. it is hy it is basicly impossible to choke yourself with your own hands most you will do is pass out and start breathing again. building this abality and it can be trained can give you an edge when an opponent catches you and expects you to pass out in a few seconds and you last much longer they may think the hold is not applied right and go to readjust giving you a chance to breath or break the hold. mind you when training this expect to be very hoarse and sore. I learned this from a Sensi of mine when I was stationed in Groton CT I used to ride a bike 3 miles regardless the weather to that class 5 nights a week even in the CT winter, the man was amazing and I can not for the love of me at the moment recall his name. Taught me alot about the sword and the beleifs on the Samurai and thier training.
 

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True Grappler
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I've got one that I know wouldn't have been brought up otherwise.

The Muay Thai Clinch: It opperates by holding the head so that the neck is bent to decrease balance and control of the other fighter. The muay thai clinch is best applied when the head is dropped and retained by pushing the forearms together against the top of the jawbone and tightening the bicepts and chest. Once this position is maintained the opponents head drops and causes the opponent to no longer have complete vision. Slowly costricting the chest and bicepts and dropping the position of the forearms will cause the head to drop even further and eventually finalize your control of your opponent.
 

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Outta My Head
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Finer points to the MT Clinch (try this out IronMan, you'll probably like it):

When initiating the clinch, don't wrap your hands around the back of the opponents neck, but cup the backside/crown of their head. Your forearms should follow their jawline, across the clavicle, with your elbows somewhere around your opponents mid-chest area. If you wrap oaround their neck, you're going to have to exert more energy to bring their head down. Since the crown of their head is farther away from the fulcrum point that the head uses to move up and down (the neck itself), applied physics will work in your favor and make it so that your opponent has to exert much more energy to stay upright. Your goal will be their neck eventually (I'll ilustrate why) but not when you're first establishing the clinch.

When establishing the clinch, don't use an grip where you interlace your fingers. Instead use a grip where it is hand over hand, or a palm-to-palm "axehandle" type grip. The interlaced grip is much looser than the other two, and requires too much energy to maintain. Also, if the opponent starts pummeling for inside control or arm control, it's actually very easy for you to end up wrenching digits with an interlaced grip.

Once your grip is established, bring your forearms together to vice around the sides of your opponents neck. This is done easily by bringing your biceps in tight and squeezing your elbows together. The biggest and most common mistake when trying to establish the MT Clinch is not putting the requisite amount of pressure needed to control your opponent. From there, bring the opponents forehead to a rest on your collarbone or the middle of your chest.

Here's the finepoint to truly establish control and make your opponent regret the fact that you've got them tied up: Slip you grip lower to the nape of the neck, and lower your center of gravity by stepping back and bending your knees. This will crank his head up/back and expose his jaw and throat. Once in this position you'll find that leading your opponent around will be easy. Further since their head and neck is locked in tight, if they try to lower levels and shoot, or wrap you up with their arms it will be difficult because: 1) It hurts and 2) Your waist and lower body are farther away from them. From this position, your primed to fire away at the body or head of your opponent with knees.

If the opponent starts to step forward to come close, you can counter by stepping back and circling away with the opposite side leg. So if your opponent steps forward with their left leg, you step back with your left and turn to your left 90 degrees. They will need to follow you or they will fall to their right side. If they fall, no problem, start working your ground game. If they follow you to stay upright, right when their other leg starts to come forward shoot your left knee in (since it is in the perfect position to use the attack).

Does that make sense? I hope it does. If anyone is interested, I can give you ways to break the clinch.
 

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True Grappler
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I think that this has been transfered to the Submissions showcase, because we know, usually, why strikes work.

Hyperextension is a beautiful thing.
 
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