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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Like wrestling it is a sport in which people train solely that modality since the age of like 5. The Mayweather Jr's, James Toney's, Pacquaio's, Cotto's, etc, are all fighters that have gone through the amateur's, Olympics, and early professional ranks with hardly a blemish on their record. It is extremely specialized and specific. Professional boxers with records of 15-2 would not last 2 rounds with many of the elite boxers. Elite boxers (Klitsckho brothers, Mayweather, Martinez, Pacman, Berto, etc) have reflexes, stamina, and skill far above other B, C level boxing competition. This is what they know.

You CAN'T be the highest level boxer and train other disciplines or you would lose your edge. With MMA, it is about finding the best "mix."

MMA started with "Style A Vs Style B" (Who is the best). So you had your boxers, kickboxers, BJJ, etc vying for the title of the "best fighter." With that, came the notion of fighting in MANY disciplines and figuring out "what is the right combination" to be the best fighter.

With that, over the past 20 years, we have seen the end of the BJJ is "king" craze that was established by Gracie family. We had the Dan Severn's of MMA come and show what high level wrestling could do, Mark Coleman's wrestling with GnP, Hughes furthering that formula, and finally we have what seems to be the current Mix: High level base wrestling and TDD to keep fights standing to strike and get the KO.

In about another 20 years, we are going to see MMA fighters that were wrestling, boxing, and practicing BJJ from the age of five. Will they be the absolute best in ANY one of those sports...probably not. However they will still be the best MMA fighters because to be the best in this sport...you need to be high level in many modalities.

I suppose you could take a fighting family like the Berto's, whose father was a wrestler and fighter, Andre Berto is a WW champ boxer (young) and a brother who is an MMA fighter. Andre could probably take on the challenge, train wrestling for a few years, and bring some heat to the sport with his outstanding chin, heart and ELITE level boxing. But that would not stand the test of time because you really need to be special on the ground AND on your feet. Andre would really just be Above Special (Gold Belt) on his feet...and average/good on the ground if he trained for a few YEARS in wrestling.

This is all IMHO however but I just don't see any ONE fight sport ever making a mark in MMA. The sport we see today will be FAR different in 10 years and we have been watching the trends change every few years anyways. Peace.
 

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Crazy Kicker
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not a bad write up i like ur views.

but i do think high level boxing will come to mma it will just have to be modifyed.

i come from kickboxing and i found switching to mma hard because i love ending every combo with a kick and in mma u just can't do that everything or u will get took down and etc.....

u just have to modify
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I guess the reason I wrote that (before i get WTF LOL Wall O Text) is that I don't see Toney Vs Couture as the freakshow people think. I see it like an Old School UFC fight (Boxer, Vs Wrestler). James Toney nullifies any dirty boxing or clinch game of Couture. Couture will NOT try to clinch or get toney to the cage, like many people think. Toney will KO him easily if that happens.

The fight will play out by having Couture go to his bread and butter (wrestling) and GnP Toney inside of two minutes. Toney will have a slight chance to show angles, time uppercuts and catch Couture before he can shoot. Wrestling is a tough nut to crack and it should be very easy to get this fight to the ground. But it is the allure of "what if" that has people excited. Will it prove anything about MMA vs Boxing? Hell no. Boxers and MMA guys train together all the time and ADMIRE the different skill sets. Only people on forums care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
not a bad write up i like ur views.

but i do think high level boxing will come to mma it will just have to be modifyed.

i come from kickboxing and i found switching to mma hard because i love ending every combo with a kick and in mma u just can't do that everything or u will get took down and etc.....

u just have to modify
Right on. I agree. I come from boxing VIA Kronk Gym in Detroit. I moved to Windsor, ON and have found that NO ONE even knows what boxing is. It is good to see some fellow Canadians showing love for kickboxing, boxing. Peace.
 

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Crazy Kicker
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punchers chance.

everyone said matt serra has a grapplers chance....but nope
 

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All Eyez on Me
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WTF LOL...

Nah seriously nice write up. I agree with most of what you said with the exception of high level boxers not being able to make that transition. I think they can as long as they can learn some decent TDD and basic BJJ or just match them up with the right opponent.

I want Toney vs Liddel :)
 

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ROCKET FISTS
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Give me a break about Couture not dirty boxing Toney. Maybe everyone has forgotten the Kimbo vs Mercer fight?

Kimbo would be crazy to stand with Mercer!!! Mercer by KO!!!


And guess what, using slight cage tactics Kimbo stands toe-to-toe with a champion boxer and outstrikes him viciously. Couture will be able to stand and trade, clinch and trade, TD and pound, basically anything he wants. He's a world class submission guy too (was a draw against Jacare, for example) and if Papa Couture wants to choke Toney out, he likely will.



The original point that you can't become the #1 elite at a specific art if you're going to be well rounded is almost too true though. Although at a high enough level you get guys like Shogun. He can grapple with the best in the world and Rua vs Bonjasky wouldn't be a shut-out in any way.

In MMA guys train 8 hours a day 6 days a week, in my experience pure boxers or pure BJJ guys train far less too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Give me a break about Couture not dirty boxing Toney. Maybe everyone has forgotten the Kimbo vs Mercer fight?

Kimbo would be crazy to stand with Mercer!!! Mercer by KO!!!


And guess what, using slight cage tactics Kimbo stands toe-to-toe with a champion boxer and outstrikes him viciously. Couture will be able to stand and trade, clinch and trade, TD and pound, basically anything he wants. He's a world class submission guy too (was a draw against Jacare, for example) and if Papa Couture wants to choke Toney out, he likely will.



The original point that you can't become the #1 elite at a specific art if you're going to be well rounded is almost too true though. Although at a high enough level you get guys like Shogun. He can grapple with the best in the world and Rua vs Bonjasky wouldn't be a shut-out in any way.

In MMA guys train 8 hours a day 6 days a week, in my experience pure boxers or pure BJJ guys train far less too.
Ya but Mercer and Toney are two totally different fighters. Freddie Roach said he was the MOST talented boxer he ever came across; including pac man. He is just riddled with poor lifestyle choices. Regarding the Couture decision to dirty box; just my opinion dude. I just think JT will win that. He is a tough tough tough dude with a cast iron chin. Just because he has specific rules in the ring, doesn't mean he would do some things couture has never seen when fighting up close on the feet. I just expect this to go straight to the ground.

On boxers Vs mma in training....they are equal. Boxers conditioning is second-to-none. I would liken them to the same level of athlete as a wrestler or soccer player. At Kronk, the guys train for about 4 hours daily. The guys on TV...train 3X daily just like any other high level fighter/combat sport.
 

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Well i believe that if your a warrior in your heart and mind it doesnt matter and there are no limits. Fedor is a man who is a real warrior, he loves to fight, he could of done boxing if he wanted i believe. Mike tyson would of done well in mma as well, he just had to learn some things and with his athleticism and natural talent he would of been a destroyer.
 

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Fedor, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Nogueira brothers, Arlovski, etc. Yeah boxing won't cut it, since we've seen over the hill one dimensional guys lose in mma/k1. Manny Pacquiao, Mayweather, Paul Williams, Sergio Martinez, Klitschko and many more are all fine making millions in boxing. Get over it. BJJ guys need to face facts that learning to at worst, survive on the ground can be picked up by any serious fighter/athlete. Wrestling is a different story though
 

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High level boxers are used to head movement and rolling punches. You can't do much of either withough getting taken down. I think MMA is great I watch alot of it. I also don't pay for it either. The stand-up game is freakin' awesome and boxing is where its at. :thumbsup:
 

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High level boxers are used to head movement and rolling punches. You can't do much of either withough getting taken down. I think MMA is great I watch alot of it. I also don't pay for it either. The stand-up game is freakin' awesome and boxing is where its at. :thumbsup:
I got to disagree Cabby. Watch guys like BJ and Fedor roll and dip punches and then light up their opponents with counters
 

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personally i think boxing, when used properly is the best stand up technique in mma, anderson silva, the nogs and BJ have won fights using pure boxing. top boxing is based on lightning quick reactions which could be adapted to TDD as wel as punches
 
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