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Back In Black
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When you have some one that specializes in one of the them (assuming that they are equally as good at it as the other is in theirs), who do you think has the upper hand?
 

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libertywrestler said:
what's the real difference between a grappler and a striker :dunno:
Grappling refers to the gripping, handling and controlling of an opponent without the use of striking, typically through the application of various grappling holds and counters to various hold attempts. It is an essential part of both clinch fighting and ground fighting.

Striking is in many martial arts, such as karate, taekwondo, boxing and Muay Thai. Striking normally consists of using wrists, forearms, shoulders, back and hips to strike an opponent. Of course the striking we'd see more in MMA would be striking with palms, elbows, knees and feet.

So you see striking and grappling are much different. Striking a lot of times is complemented by grappling though. I'm sure you've seen fighters strike then use grappling when they have made their opponent vulnerable.
 

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Niether, not without some knowledge of other disciplines. It's a rock paper scissors scenario.

The wrestler can take down the grappler but he will get caught in a submission if he does not know how to defend.

The striker has only a punchers chance and a slim one at that if he does not learn to defend the takedown against the grappler, wrestler.

If the grapplers do not know how to defend the kicks, knees and clinch. They are playing a dangerous game when they shoot.

If I had to pick one for my own personal defense it would be BJJ. first, it can teach you how to beat guys much bigger than you, wrestlers all seem to be mesomorphs and rely on strength. Pure wrestlers have never trained to 'finish' anyone. Pretty hard to make some drunk ass 'say uncle' cause you pinned him.

BJJ will train you to break arms and legs and choke people unconscious, great way to end a fight quickly without personal injury.

Striking is okay, KOing someone will get you respect fast, but 95% of us lack the skills to bring Knock out power to your opponent. You stand toe to toe with someone you are going to get hit. It hurts, I'm sick to death of getting punched in the face, it may be okay for you ugly guys but I have some boy Band good looks to protect :D

Also, for self defense, BJJ is the best skill set to have if someone pulls a weapon on you. Bar none. someone comes at you with a knife and you try and punch with him, you are going to get stuck. you can take him down and break that arm with BJJ.
 

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libertywrestler said:
what's the real difference between a grappler and a striker :dunno:
Striking concists of punches, kick, knees and elbows. Grappling is a ground game. ^^^^Cant grappling and wrestling be one in the same. If your talking about Striking, Submissions and wrestling then its really hard to say. I know everyone whos a wrestler will say wrestling, everyone whos a striker will say striking and anyone who dose a submission style will say grappling/submissions.They all have strong and weak points. Striking can be very useful if you have proper takedown defence. Many sub-fighting styles teach you how to defeat you opponent when on your back aswell as stop them in many other positions.wrestling has great slams and takedowns. I take BJJ and im not gonna be biased it really all depends on the practicer more than anything. I peronally like BJJ but I dont think its better than any other style.
 

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MMA1990 said:
Striking concists of punches, kick, knees and elbows. Grappling is a ground game. ^^Cant grappling and wrestling be one in the same. If your talking about Striking, Submissions and wrestling then its really hard to say. I know everyone whos a wrestler will say wrestling, everyone whos a striker will say striking and anyone who dose a submission style will say grappling/submissions. I take BJJ and im not gonna be biased it really all depends on the practicer more than anything.
Yeah I mean I see grappling as wrestling with additional skills added on like learning to make your opponent tap out. Thats why a lot of great wrestlers makea good transition to become good grapplers as well. Someone like Chuck liddell has skill there but he practices much more on defending from a wrestler/grappler which leaves opponents that specialize in wrestling/grappling dumbfounded when they cant take him down or cannot keep him grounded and they end up getting knocked out.
 

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Back In Black
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Squeetard said:
You stand toe to toe with someone you are going to get hit. It hurts, I'm sick to death of getting punched in the face, it may be okay for you ugly guys but I have some boy Band good looks to protect :D
LOL I LOVE THIS QUOTE!!!
 

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Back In Black
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BigBanda said:
Yeah I mean I see grappling as wrestling with additional skills added on like learning to make your opponent tap out. Thats why a lot of great wrestlers makea good transition to become good grapplers as well. Someone like Chuck liddell has skill there but he practices much more on defending from a wrestler/grappler which leaves opponents that specialize in wrestling/grappling dumbfounded when they cant take him down or cannot keep him grounded and they end up getting knocked out.
Chucks basis for his fighting is a wrestling back ground.

It's hard for wrestlers to over come the teaching of not getting on their backs. They are all very different. Wretlers are not grapplers and have a very hard time adapting to them. Grapplers have a hard time with the ground and pound that wrestlers bring to the ring and strikers have a hard time if they get taken down, but can win the stand up any day.

Is the general thought that it's not what you specialize in but what your secondary defense is?
 

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Chrisl972 said:
Chucks basis for his fighting is a wrestling back ground.

It's hard for wrestlers to over come the teaching of not getting on their backs. They are all very different. Wretlers are not grapplers and have a very hard time adapting to them. Grapplers have a hard time with the ground and pound that wrestlers bring to the ring and strikers have a hard time if they get taken down, but can win the stand up any day.

Is the general thought that it's not what you specialize in but what your secondary defense is?
I dont know. I've seen great wrestlers add on grappling. I do know what you mean about wrestlers having a hard time adapting to grappling though since the thing you are defending most in wrestling is keeping off your back. I guess depends on who you are and if you can adapt. The point i was making with Chuck.... his primary offense is actually all to do with countering. He is an excellent counter striker and he trains to defend takedowns and standing back up when taken down. This is exactly what we see Chuck do in just about all his fights. He makes it so that his opponent is forced to stand and then its lights out.
 

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Back In Black
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BigBanda said:
I dont know. I've seen great wrestlers add on grappling. I do know what you mean about wrestlers having a hard time adapting to grappling though since the thing you are defending most in wrestling is keeping off your back. I guess depends on who you are and if you can adapt. The point i was making with Chuck.... his primary offense is actually all to do with countering. He is an excellent counter striker and he trains to defend takedowns and standing back up when taken down. This is exactly what we see Chuck do in just about all his fights. He makes it so that his opponent is forced to stand and then its lights out.
And I love him for that.
 

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its a tough agrument. i have always been prone to striking. i think bjj is probably the best all around. but it really depends on the person. dean lister is one of the best grapplers in the world, but his take downs and stand up arent that great. so he could get ko'd trying for that take down. but if he gets you on the ground you are in trouble. i think thats why its so important to cross train. you cant just be good at one thing anymore, otherwise the guy that has the rock to smash your scissors will always when. and the guy with the paper will always beat the rock. the the guy with the scissors beats the paper guy. it never ends. you have to be all three if you want to be a champion. and if you dont want to be champ then just keep doing one thing and continue to be a stepping stone for all the guys that cross train. at my school, we have bjj, muay thai, *****, boxing,and sub wrestling. there is even a grip fighting class you can take. we also incorporate alot of judo in our jiu jitsu which i think is very key to getting the fight down. i plan to be a very well rounded fighter, and be dangerous anywhere the fight goes, but im always looking for the ko, its the rock in me i guess.:D
 

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libertywrestler said:
ok i understand now of course wrestling will win ;)
is that why Dan Severn (a pure wrestler) was defeated by Royce Gracie (a pure BJJfighter)? aswell as so many other wrestlers in the early UFC's. Wrestlings a great style but its flawed like any other style.
 

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severn and gracie arent on the same level

BJJ takes components of wrestleing ..i mean its balance and manipulation so i kinda see them as closely related

but if you have a good enough striker (say mike tyson at 23) then he hits you once and your done.


i want tyson in the ufc btw..him vs. tito = huge circus and funny as hell to watch

tyson throws..connects..it hurts...tito throws him down and gets his nipple bitten off...dq tito wins
 
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Wrestlers Win

If they have the other skills to compliment there wrestling I think that wrestlers are the most dominant opponents. Look at Matt Hueghs Great Wrestler - No Stand up (He has never KO and oppent from the feet in 40 MMA matches) - Above average Grappler (Ask GSP). Tito - Dominated the for 3 years w/ wrestling until Chuck and Randy. And the King Fedor, ***** champ the other guys dont have much of a chance(ask Cro Cop)

Being a world class wrestler that is confident on his back means that you can control and win rounds with out taking serious damage.

Strikers being the next in line, Strikers however must possess the ablity to stay of the ground. If you can stand back up after you get taken down you have a chance against a wrestler but the way that round scoring goes you have to be able to keep yourself on your feet.

Grappling is dead. All the fighters know are so good a submission defence that you just dont see pure grapplers anymore. BJ Penn being one of the best grapplers around uses his stand up for most of his offence. And only after the fighter is worked over they become subseptable to the submissions.

MMA is really about how good you are at all the desiplines. Knowbody is good unless they can mix it up with every form of fighting.
 
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